Upavāṇa sutta: With Upavāṇa

At Sāvatthī.

Then Venerable Upavāṇa went up to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side, and said to him:

“Sir, there are some ascetics and brahmins who assert that suffering is made by oneself. There are some who assert that suffering is made by another. There are some who assert that suffering is made by both oneself and another. There are some who assert that suffering arises anomalously, not made by oneself or another.

What does the Buddha say about this? How does he explain it? How should we answer so as to repeat what the Buddha has said, and not misrepresent him with an untruth? How should we explain in line with his teaching, with no legitimate grounds for rebuttal and criticism?”

“Upavāṇa, I have said that suffering is dependently originated. Dependent on what? Dependent on contact. In speaking like this, you would repeat what I have said, and not misrepresent me with an untruth. You would explain in line with my teaching, and there would be no legitimate grounds for rebuttal and criticism.

In the case of those ascetics and brahmins who assert that suffering is made by oneself, that’s dependent on contact. … In the case of those who assert that suffering arises anomalously, not made by oneself or another, that’s also dependent on contact.

In the case of those ascetics and brahmins who assert that suffering is made by oneself, it’s impossible that they will experience that without contact. … In the case of those who assert that suffering arises anomalously, not made by oneself or another, it’s impossible that they will experience that without contact.”